Complete The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: GAME OVER, 5 Stars!
02-19-2015, 10:38 AM
Post: #101
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Fair enough. Unvote Vancho
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02-19-2015, 10:42 AM
Post: #102
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Umm... there's no lynching in this game.

The one, the only, Vancho!
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02-19-2015, 10:42 AM
Post: #103
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
I know. It was a joke.
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02-19-2015, 10:50 AM
Post: #104
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
(02-19-2015 10:42 AM)Vancho1 Wrote:  Umm... there's no lynching in this game.

Oh, there is? Sweet! Vote: No Lynch







seriously though Vancho, the idea behind the denial is that everything you said holds true if we deny two teams and approve the third one, BUT we have additional information in the form of the two teams that the first two leaders proposed and the discussion that was held about them.
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02-19-2015, 10:51 AM
Post: #105
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
still taking suggestions for a 3rd, fyi. i'm leaning vancho?
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02-19-2015, 11:00 AM
Post: #106
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Chuck's actually not bad either. Obviously in your position I'd pick Pala, but that's probably not productive since I've already done it. Vancho seems as good as anyone at this point and at the very least I somewhat doubt both Vancho AND Chuck are spies based on what's been going on there.
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02-19-2015, 11:13 AM
Post: #107
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
(02-19-2015 10:51 AM)icanhasdonut Wrote:  still taking suggestions for a 3rd, fyi. i'm leaning vancho?
Please don't select your team until everybody's weighed in/generated some discussion.

I'm not a fan of Vancho

@VanchoMechanical analysis isn't scummy but it also isn't Towny and you haven't done anything Town-y enough for me to recall it off the top of my head. Pushing for the Mission 1 Round 1 to go through might be something I'll townread you for late game, but it's really something that depends on what world we're in and we don't have enough info to do serious worldbuilding.
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02-19-2015, 11:17 AM
Post: #108
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Oh christ I should have been paying attention.

pE is actually a cool guy here I don't think Vancho would have approved the team as scum given how popular denying it seemed?

speedchuck seems scummish for specifically having to have scumreads on someone who likes me (explain please). Actually think having townreads of your own is a townish thing, especially this early when scum wants to be throwing doubt at everyone. Also, reaverb asks him his thoughts on dC and speed sort of... ignores it?

Cooould agree with reaverb regarding a donut/him/speed team but honestly I'd prefer me/Vancho/someone else (not reaverb at this point because I have memories of being a control freak as a spy last time we played this).

Speaking of old experiences though, another top scum strategy is to pick the talkiest, leadiest town for the first round and fail the mission to get people suspicious of them. So like, not 100% certain whether or not reaverb or dC are the spy here (fun scary theory - it's both of them).
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02-19-2015, 11:20 AM
Post: #109
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
EBWOP: donut I'd suggest speed but at the same time you're being far too 'I'll do whatever people say' and not nearly 'here are my own opinions' that now I'm not super sure I'll support your team anyways?

Why do you lean Vancho? Could I convince you to not choose reaverb as your second (and pick me instead)?
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02-19-2015, 11:34 AM
Post: #110
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
i mean vancho has been posting and it hasn't made me suspicious? i also can't read

also re second: uh
i mean i had revearb because he was making good points re:dC selection and i don't know if you could convince me?
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02-19-2015, 11:46 AM
Post: #111
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
(02-19-2015 11:17 AM)Palamedes Wrote:  speedchuck seems scummish for specifically having to have scumreads on someone who likes me (explain please)
Already did. You had literally less content than anyone and he likes you? Suspicious. Nothing more than that, given early game.
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02-19-2015, 11:53 AM
Post: #112
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Why aren't you suspicious of me?

Why is someone having townreads suspicious, especially this early when there's nothing for scum to gain in doing so?

So no, you haven't really explained?

I also would say I had as much if not more content than half of the playerlist by Lawsome's post.
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02-19-2015, 11:54 AM
Post: #113
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Unsure how I feel about Pala pushing for being on donut's team. My view at this point was that self-nomination is kind of scummy as spies have a specific reason to (attempting to push a teammate onto a team has MUCH greater risks) whereas town players are much happier trying to set up their major townreads to participate as opposed to themselves.

However I've never actually PLAYED this game before so I don't know if that pattern holds up well. It is making me uneasy at present though.
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02-19-2015, 11:58 AM
Post: #114
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Let's get other people's opinions on the matter. Yes or no only please.
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02-19-2015, 12:10 PM
Post: #115
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
but as town, you want to put the most towny people on the team. you(pala am in this case) are the most towny person you(pala) know. therefore, you should nominate yourself.
(alternatively there's no way to read self-nomination unless it's generally accepted that the person is scum because scum will be like "i am the most towny person too!")
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02-19-2015, 12:36 PM
Post: #116
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
God damnit donut.

Anyways, yes it was a trap.

Town knows 100% that they are town and thus that the mission is less likely to be failed.

Scum knows 100% who scum is (sans Oberon) and has no reason to push for their inclusion unless they know that right now only town is on the mission.

So, while wanting to push yourself for the mission is both a scum and town tell, while being content is only a scum tell.
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02-19-2015, 02:17 PM
Post: #117
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
You know what Donut
I was going to try and see what Pala did but I'm pretty sure of my hunch this time
I want on the team
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02-19-2015, 02:27 PM
Post: #118
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
@Chuck: Who do you currently want for a third? reaverb or someone else?
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02-19-2015, 02:27 PM
Post: #119
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
What is your hunch?
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02-19-2015, 02:28 PM
Post: #120
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
EBWOP: Also why didn't you want in on the team earlier?
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02-19-2015, 03:15 PM
Post: #121
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Wasn't thinking clearly, Pala. I'm still in mafia mode, and I was being overcautious. The hunch thing was a joke, as I copied Donut's daykill post from FTL. And yeah, Reaverb works for a third, I like him this game so far. Off to bed!
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02-19-2015, 03:17 PM
Post: #122
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Hey Pala what do you actually think of Speedchuck, then?

reaverb: I rejected the team because, like others have stated, there's no reason to approve it as there are currently no townreads.

"We love eloquence for its own sake, and not for any truth which it may utter, or any heroism it may inspire."
-Henry David Thoreau
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02-19-2015, 03:35 PM
Post: #123
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Not 100% sure? Sort of off on him because he still seems like he's avoiding things that might make him look bad (for example, saying Vancho was bad for being mechanical but still not giving thoughts on dC despite being asked) but I could buy it as being distracted view-wise by FTLfia.
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02-19-2015, 05:33 PM
Post: #124
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
Yeah, it's stupid not to include yourself on a team for the same reason that it's stupid to reject your own team - there is no point in doing so.

I am of the opinion that you cannot have any certainty in a townread round one. As you gain more information, you can be more cautious in which teams you approve, and who you select. Right now, there is a lot of speculation, and really I see no point in arguing over who is going to go on mission one. Pick whoever's going to be leader for the next couple of rounds, or if you insist, pick whoever you have gut feelings about to confirm those, but the only way we're getting information that is more concrete than voting (which means little if the mission goes through) or picks (which give little information until you have strong evidence that is public) is by actually letting a team go through.

To put things shortly, discussion and picks don't mean squat without passes/failures to back them up. Otherwise, you need to be going on role information, which is dangerous because Merlin should never reveal himself, and Percival cannot tell between Merlin and Morganna (always chance of error).

If you ask me, Donut/reaverb/speedchuck is guaranteed info on reaverb and speedchuck, which is good.

The one, the only, Vancho!
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02-19-2015, 05:45 PM
Post: #125
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
...I dunno, maybe Vancho has a point. How much do we learn from going through real propositions that we couldn't just learn by getting everyone to post what they'd propose if they were leader and discussing that? There's no reason to use only the one live-fire team each round for discussion.

So pursuant to this, I'd probably approve donut/reaverb/chuck if enough of us talked about what teams we'd make (or indeed will make for those of us who might be future D1 leaders) and discussed back and forth about that.

I'm gonna nominate Speedchuck to go first: Propose a Mission 1 team as though you're leader.
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02-19-2015, 06:24 PM
Post: #126
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 1
People can lie about who they'd propose, but then you can hold them to that (AKA they must explain reasoning why they would no longer pick X person to go on the team), so that's okay, and it'll get us through mission 1 faster, thus, as I have said several times, giving us actual concrete evidence as to the existence of scum within a certain subset of players in the case of a failure, and gives us some breathing room in case of success.

The one, the only, Vancho!
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02-20-2015, 01:52 AM
Post: #127
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
I dunno. It being Mission one, I don't have much to go on, but perhaps I'd pick Pala and Vancho, since they both go soon after me, and it would be good to know if they are town or scum. I'd definitely pick talkative people, because if they are going to have influence, it's best to clear them of suspicion with a success if possible. Pala and Vancho would be good to go with me.
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02-20-2015, 03:36 AM
Post: #128
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Yeah if we're going from a purely 'gain on the next few choices' thing I'd say speed/reaverb/donut.

I'd rather get in more people I vaguely trust since I'd argue with Vancho that while you can't get anything concrete ever (barring awesome situations where like three scum reveal themselves at once), you can definitely get townreads on people based on interaction. In fact, it's the best way to get them - so while yes a R1 townread isn't as good as a R4 one, it can still exist.

It's also arguably more useful for individuals to read things since disproving/enforcing a townread early lets them construct more valid teams but that might just be me.
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02-20-2015, 09:02 AM
Post: #129
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
...wait, Pala your team wouldn't include yourself? Doesn't that make it a whole lot more risky?

(Are you of the "mission 1 fail worth it for the info" persuasion?)
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02-20-2015, 09:11 AM
Post: #130
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
(02-20-2015 09:02 AM)dichotomousCreator Wrote:  (Are you of the "mission 1 fail worth it for the info" persuasion?)
I think that the post was made with that in mind.
|
v
(02-20-2015 03:36 AM)Palamedes Wrote:  Yeah if we're going from a purely 'gain on the next few choices' thing
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02-20-2015, 09:18 AM
Post: #131
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Yes. I doubt anyone could ever convince anyone to not put themselves on their team, and reaverb/speed are the next two team choosers.
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02-20-2015, 11:58 AM
Post: #132
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
I think the question is what team you would make if you were the next leader up, Pala. Not what team you want other people to make.
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02-20-2015, 12:15 PM
Post: #133
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Yeah what Goomba said basically. I'm trying to get around the "five teams" restriction by simulating people as team leaders as effectively as is feasible (thus allowing us to both analyze more people's teams AND approve earlier teams if we decide it's a good idea without losing as much information)
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02-20-2015, 12:17 PM
Post: #134
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Me/Vancho/some third (maybe you for info? Or someone else I might gain even a vague townread on).
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02-20-2015, 12:22 PM
Post: #135
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Oh. I just noticed that if Pala makes a team it's gonna be the auto-approved one...

Does that change the logic at all? Like, since you won't get to see how people vote on it or anything?

(I mean you probably already noticed this was the case, but still :v)
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02-20-2015, 12:27 PM
Post: #136
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Let's say once we get to team three or four we'll pre-vote on a team I'll suggest (or I could do that prior to making the team)?
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02-20-2015, 12:29 PM
Post: #137
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Actually yeah forcing the fifth person to build a team on consensus sounds like a good plan for avoiding unpleasant situations and allowing us to reject the fourth team if it sucks.

(NOTE - This should not be relied upon if there are two failures already for obvious reasons)
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02-20-2015, 03:07 PM
Post: #138
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
put me in coach! ill be on the team!

It's time to, T-T-T-T-T-T TRIPLE POST
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02-20-2015, 09:27 PM
Post: #139
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Hey sorry for being offline I keep forgetting this game exists, stupid other forum.

Quote:Lawsome, for having a townread on Pala (explain pls)

I have no idea, actually. I think perhaps I meant to write Reaverb, but then looking at his posts I don't really know why I'd get a townread from those (not that they're very scummy posts either, they're just heavily accusative, which can be either a mafia being touchy or a townie trying to provoke, hard to tell without the meta.). But yeah, that one post was no justification for getting a townread, wasn't even a very good post.

The idea of having the 5th team decided by plurality makes a lot of sense. We could even set up a voting system for it.

Wither one with the format:
[playername] [team the player has proposed] [votes]

Or just a more common vote where we just vote for the people we find towniest and the top 3 get in, though this could conceivably be abused by the spies. One way to reduce the spies ability to abuse this is to give people as many votes as they like, so that someone with only 2 votes is most certainly not going to end up on the team. Which method do you guys think would work?


Anyway, scumreads.
icanhascoughnut: Now I've played a game with ican if I remember correctly, and i remember him being a lot less newbish than this, which makes me think he's trying to put up a front. Everyone else, is this behaviour (short posts, little content) common for ican? Has he played here before?
Mecha_goomba: Just 0 content, but might just be a newbish town again.
pE: Especailly that last post, I assume it's meant to be funny.

With these three I'm totally without meta so if this s just typical silliness from these three let me know.

Townreads:
Vancho: Speedchuck said he was scummy for posting about mechanics, I don't see anything wrong with that, expeically very early in the game when there's little else to talk about. He's contributed and seems

I have to go now so I can't finish this post, I have a few more town and scumreads I'll get back to them in a bit
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02-20-2015, 10:07 PM
Post: #140
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Voting system good, I think voting for a team rather than individuals might work better but I can't quite pin down why I think that is right now. Maybe because specific teams might offer specific insights?
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02-20-2015, 10:23 PM
Post: #141
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
I like the idea of a voting system, but I think a team method would actually be more abusable by the spies. Teams instead of individuals means many more choices, so there's a lower threshold to get in and more reason to bandwagon.
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02-21-2015, 01:26 AM
Post: #142
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Donut, you have 6.5h to put forth a team. Communication ends in 30.5h
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02-21-2015, 02:12 AM
Post: #143
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
@donut Sorry for being inactive for a day, if you want my opinion on the team I'm currently leaning donut/reaverb/Palamedes
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02-21-2015, 02:52 AM
Post: #144
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
^Just do it. I'd pass it.
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02-21-2015, 04:16 AM
Post: #145
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
Ew reeks of me last time doing frame work on Kieros. Vibes say I'd sort of prefer me/speed instead of me/reaverb right now. Then again, donut hasn't responded to my concerns so maybe even that would be bad?

Lawsome, could you elaborate on your scumreads? I'm not 100% sure I get them (especially Goomba and pE). Also, what are your thoughts on dC, and what was 'bad' about my first post (and why don't you have me as a scumread now if that's the case)?

Voting for players probably makes more sense then teams, just because we could easily end up with a multi-way tie. Don't see voting for teams being that abuseable, but still feels like an eh idea (since you can push for teams as you push for individuals).
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02-21-2015, 04:35 AM
Post: #146
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
@DC Re: Pala valuation error
A) Having a team fail doesn't give much information about a particular player, since there are at least 3 possible players who could be spies.

B) A failure early game matters as much as a failure late game (so if deep cover scum get on a team late game that maters as much as scum being randomly selected to get on a team early game)

So in Resistance games the way to deal with players that are good scum is to refuse to put them on early teams, to deny them early fails if they happen to roll scum.

This is actually more arguable than I thought at first glance, but really all this is mostly moot given that we have enough info to make decisions based on the gamestate rather than meta.
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02-21-2015, 04:38 AM
Post: #147
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
(02-17-2015 04:17 PM)Mister Visceral Wrote:  I have no inherent problems with dC's proposed team. Then again, this is my first time playing the game sooooooooooooooooo

(02-19-2015 03:17 PM)Mister Visceral Wrote:  reaverb: I rejected the team because, like others have stated, there's no reason to approve it as there are currently no townreads.

Earlier, you said there was no reason to reject the team, since there wasn't any information to based that decision on. Then, you said there was no reason to approve the team, since there wasn't any information to based that decision on.

What caused you to shift the burden of proof?
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02-21-2015, 05:28 AM
Post: #148
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
ye i'm debating between speed and pala but i think pala's a better choice so icanhasdonut/reaverb/palamedes
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02-21-2015, 07:23 AM
Post: #149
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
reaverb note how Vic said he was new in the first one. He probably was convinced by other people?

Or he's scum but I don't see this being a scumtell.
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02-21-2015, 07:55 AM
Post: #150
RE: The Resistance: DeFranco's Fine French Cuisine: Mission 1 Round 2
(02-21-2015 07:23 AM)Palamedes Wrote:  reaverb note how Vic said he was new in the first one. He probably was convinced by other people?
After MV answers this question, can you tell me why you felt the need to say this before MV answered the question?
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