Complete Traffic Jam Mafia (TOWN WIN)
04-21-2015, 08:01 AM
Post: #151
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 05:04 AM)reaverb Wrote:  @yuiop Put down a vote.
Fine. Vote reaverb. :|

(04-21-2015 06:40 AM)Acionyx Wrote:  Yuiop: who do you think is most likely to be scum out of youdont/kiven/speedchuck?
I'm thinking yd12k.

(04-21-2015 06:56 AM)amosmyn Wrote:  
(04-21-2015 06:17 AM)yd12k Wrote:  RE: youip, amosmym: How's life without having any blood, bile or phlegm?
AKA you guys lack humour I figured I'd spell it out for you because apperantly puns aren't your strong suit.
To spell it out perfectly, ruining the joke: Bussing is a mafia term, and busses are vehicles. Vehicles that would be involved in traffic, including when said traffic ceases movement and comes to a standstill. also known as a traffic jam. Such as this one.
I mean you'd say that breaking up a line, and following it with a csi gif would be enough to convey tone but apperantly I was wrong.
I don't actually think it was bussing (It could be, but I have no specific reason to think it), I just wanted to be the first to make the joke.

If that was supposed to be the joke that is the shittiest joke I've seen yet.
Yes, I got the obvious. No, it wasn't funny. Nice try, quit being an asshole about it.
But yeah, thanks for clarifying things anyways.
What amos said.

vote yd12k
I didn't really like the somewhat condescending tone of yd12k's post in response to a question I asked dC trying to understand his thought process behind his voting and then unvoting of yd12k. It also felt like he was being a little overly defensive and defending against nonexistent accusations.
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04-21-2015, 08:32 AM (This post was last modified: 04-21-2015 09:04 AM by Gatr.)
Post: #152
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
I Hope I'm Doing This Right (Edit: Apparently I Was Not) Votals

dichotomousCreator (4) - (beruru, amosmyn, anacreon, speedchuck)
Mecha_Goomba (2) - (Acionyx, Sotek)
amosmyn (1) - (dichotomousCreator)
speedchuck (1) - (reaverb)
Carnegie (1) - (Coldblooded)
yd12k (1) - (yuiop)
beruru (1) - (yd12k)
Sotek (1) - (SupahKiven)

Abstaining (4) - (ika, Carnegie, Mirdini, Mecha_Goomba)

[Image: sig.gif]
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04-21-2015, 08:34 AM
Post: #153
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Naw, my vote is on dC.
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04-21-2015, 08:38 AM
Post: #154
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Yeah I voted DC because he did a bad thing.

then he explained that he was deliberately doing a bad thing, and then it wasn't a bad thing anymore, because actually it did some good stuff.

meanwhile mecha_goomba did a bad thing.

And then he followed it up with lynch nihilism and an unvote. I'm looking forward to Acio ripping his throat out for *that*, so that I don't have to.

(but uh. My experience is that when someone pings my bad-RVS-votedar and then expresses lynch nihilism, they're usually scum. This is independent of lynch nihilism being factually wrong.)
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04-21-2015, 08:40 AM
Post: #155
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Hey sotek what do you think of amos because he's pretty daykill worthy to me right now
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04-21-2015, 09:02 AM
Post: #156
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
There's a lot of echoed commentary going around on issues outside of MG. Not that there's a whole lot else to talk about. Props to you acio for trying to doing something about it.
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04-21-2015, 09:07 AM
Post: #157
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 08:40 AM)Acionyx Wrote:  Hey sotek what do you think of amos because he's pretty daykill worthy to me right now

I was debating between him and goomba!

I'd be p. okay with either one being daykilled.
amos would be a better daykill, probably, but goomba is maybe a better lynch to fight for?
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04-21-2015, 09:20 AM
Post: #158
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Ugh. All I see right now is a bunch of people other than dC with barely anything for me to read off of, and dC who looks weird in every way except that I found myself in pretty much the same place in FTL Mafia. And, of course, me, who gets to watch everyone spiral in on him while trying to actually think my vote through because I actually think I might be able to find scum for once.

Eh, why bother thinking things through anyway. Vote: dC
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04-21-2015, 09:25 AM
Post: #159
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
... or we could just vote Mecha Goomba because Sotek's nihilist point is just bleating the above post.
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04-21-2015, 09:29 AM
Post: #160
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 06:54 AM)SupahKiven Wrote:  
(04-21-2015 06:40 AM)Acionyx Wrote:  
(04-21-2015 06:30 AM)SupahKiven Wrote:  For right now I think I'll... Vote: Sotek because I'm kind of not digging his votes?
What exactly do you dislike about them?

The dC vote just kind of rubs me the wrong way, especially paired with the 'eh, never mind' he makes when he retracts it. As for the Goomba vote, it sort of looks to me like he's following you onto it, though again, I guess I'm not seeing the thing that makes him vote worthy.

Why did it rub you the wrong way? What about it made it seem scummy to you?

(04-21-2015 09:07 AM)Sotek Wrote:  
(04-21-2015 08:40 AM)Acionyx Wrote:  Hey sotek what do you think of amos because he's pretty daykill worthy to me right now

I was debating between him and goomba!

I'd be p. okay with either one being daykilled.
amos would be a better daykill, probably, but goomba is maybe a better lynch to fight for?

Eh if there's one of the two that's more likely to be town I think it's goomba (the day one nihilism is characteristic of his day one townplay and it's something he's been lynched over repeatedly)

Lynch: Amos because 131 and 156 are agh (he's buddying reaver and then me and pulling that "hohoho I see what's going on here~" thing that DC tried in adventuretime"

Also p sure he's not aligned with DC given the biteyness in their earlier exchange
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04-21-2015, 09:37 AM
Post: #161
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Mm. if he has a *pattern* of Lynch Nihilism then sure. I need to actually write up Votals At Time.

What's your opinion of speedchuck?
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04-21-2015, 09:40 AM
Post: #162
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
If that's seriously the argument you were building on me Acio you're a fool.
I mean really is there something wrong with me agreeing with what I presumably thought was running through your mind or what?

To be honest here I thought you were going to take advantage of that "let's daykill amos" dirt to try and get virtually-everyone-else-who-isn't-you-or-Sotek 's attention and see if they would buddy up to me.

Based on how you worded #160 though (last sentence) it doesn't seem you have the conviction to really follow through on that through.
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04-21-2015, 09:45 AM
Post: #163
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 08:01 AM)yuiop Wrote:  
(04-21-2015 05:04 AM)reaverb Wrote:  @yuiop Put down a vote.
Fine. Vote reaverb. :|

(04-21-2015 06:40 AM)Acionyx Wrote:  Yuiop: who do you think is most likely to be scum out of youdont/kiven/speedchuck?
I'm thinking yd12k.

Hey yuiop any actual reasoning behind this? You need to explain why you've come to these conclusions.

Also you need to bold your votes. Surround your "vote: reaverb" with these: [b ] [/b]
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04-21-2015, 09:46 AM
Post: #164
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
BTW, Kiven: "sleb" in the sense that reaverb is using it means "i don't know yet" - it's like ... you could read someone as "town", "sleb", or "scum", and sleb is what everyone is at the very start of the game.

... are there -really- no votes on anacreon right now? I thought he got voted like twice.

Hmmm.
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04-21-2015, 09:46 AM
Post: #165
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 09:37 AM)Sotek Wrote:  Mm. if he has a *pattern* of Lynch Nihilism then sure. I need to actually write up Votals At Time.

What's your opinion of speedchuck?

Light town atm; don't think he'd go after DC the way he did in 124 as scum this soon

How's yuiop look to you right now?
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04-21-2015, 09:49 AM
Post: #166
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
yuiop is slebby right now, but that's just surface lack-of-anything-memorable.

I like the offering of a bit-of-a-case on yd12k, but I haven't had time to evaluate it properly yet.

(Most of the day's been while I'm at work, so I'm not going to be engaging too deeply.)
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04-21-2015, 09:49 AM
Post: #167
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 09:46 AM)Sotek Wrote:  ... are there -really- no votes on anacreon right now? I thought he got voted like twice.

Hmmm.

I echo your sentiments.
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04-21-2015, 10:06 AM
Post: #168
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 09:46 AM)Sotek Wrote:  ... are there -really- no votes on anacreon right now?

Lurker lynch D1 is a complete waste of information because there's no discussion surrounding a lurker lynch, though. Policy lynching is even worse D1 than it is at any other time.
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04-21-2015, 10:09 AM
Post: #169
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 10:06 AM)Mecha_Goomba Wrote:  
(04-21-2015 09:46 AM)Sotek Wrote:  ... are there -really- no votes on anacreon right now?

Lurker lynch D1 is a complete waste of information because there's no discussion surrounding a lurker lynch, though. Policy lynching is even worse D1 than it is at any other time.

D1 is the safest time to policy lynch, actually!

Not ideal, but the safest.

and uh.

okay great so. Why are you saying it was bad to have cast the vote you cast?

like, I wasn't even saying Anacreon was a good lynch. I was saying I remembered people voting him and was wondering where those votes went. (the answer is 'me' and 'nowhere'. Great.)
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04-21-2015, 10:13 AM
Post: #170
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
I'm still moderately happy with the dC wagon as is... It' s strange that he hasn't responded yet. I don't think dC is the kind of player to back off and wait for people to get distracted, at least as town. I want to see where this takes us.

No idea what people are saying they have on Amos. Can see the case on MG.

Sotek could you elaborate on your dC ramblings in 154?
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04-21-2015, 10:19 AM
Post: #171
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
A policy lynch is intended to convince people to not lurk. By Day 1, you aren't going to be able to tell if an anti-lurker measure is needed because the sample size is too small. A D1 policy lynch is only slightly better than a D1 no lynch.

My anacvote was a pressure vote. I would be voting anac if I thought he was lurking now (I suspect he's asleep) and I thought pressure would help (often it just inspires fluff and repetition).
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04-21-2015, 10:24 AM
Post: #172
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
speedchuck: So, the D1 aggro carousel is a common event, and even more common is for scum to push it.

I've found pretty good success just by spending most of D1 tunneling a person who votes in a way that looks like they're trying to get that started.

dC's vote was such a vote - "RVSy", but with the appearance of a justification, and on someone who already has votes.
That can make a wagon look "inevitable" and generally Make Bad Things Happen.

okay so that brings you up to why I voted him.

Then ... there's what he said. He was aware of the D1 aggro carousel, and was choosing to start it up *so that he could defuse it*, and get information from same.

This is great, very protown.

Also, people are aggroing him? Also great. One of them's probably scum.

so ... that's why I removed my vote from him!
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04-21-2015, 10:37 AM
Post: #173
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
See, I saw it like that, but instead of defusing, I saw him calling it out as a bad technique, which didn't make any sense, given his vote. I saw it as him trying to earn townie points by being the one to yell 'bad!' at the people pushing at Carnegie, which (as you said) is common for scum to jump on.

The whole ranty post seemed forced to me. But I'll take another look at it.
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04-21-2015, 10:49 AM
Post: #174
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Amos what about carnegie's reaction made you think he was no longer worth pursuing?
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04-21-2015, 11:07 AM
Post: #175
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Alright, response time. Spoilered because there's a fair chunk of quoting. Speedchuck, yuiop, amosmyn, Carnegie, reaverb, your answers reside within.

(04-21-2015 01:42 AM)speedchuck Wrote:  @dC
I disagree. Even if they flip out, throwing pressure onto someone immediately is a great way to get out of RVS.
Reactions to the person that is flipping out, those are also important. The 'distract the town' thing is the only thing that really has to stop.

Also, I don't actually think Carnegie has done anything very scummy or reacted badly? I also don't think, aside from Cold, that anyone put a serious vote on him, and he has only one on him at the time. YOU are also the one putting the most pressure-y vote on him. So your overreaction is unneeded and I don't like it and it might be a tad hypocritical and Imma VOTE DC

And yeah, I was Cans, and I accept full responsibility for that lynch. I wasn't as into that game as I needed to be to defend myself D1.

- If you think amos's vote wasn't calculated you're not giving him enough credit
- My issue isn't with the technique's results. It's with the side-effects. (Although distracting the town happens often enough that the results aren't perfect either)
- I could be mistaken about that but I was seeing behaviour that stereotypically results in the D1 wagon piling up further.

I may have jumped the gun a little with hopping off, but I *really* wanted to try out an alternative to the D1 paradigm I've seen in every game I've played so far and if I'd just left it overnight it might have turned into a proper wagon at which point whoops it's happening again.

(04-21-2015 04:46 AM)yuiop Wrote:  I didn't find his reaction that scummy? Where specifically did he do something scummy and who's ire did he earn? And why did you feel the need to push people off Carnegie? It kind of sounds like you're implying Carnegie was in danger of being lynched but it's still early in the day and I don't think people usually lynch the first wagon that forms.
(04-21-2015 01:10 AM)dichotomousCreator Wrote:  Cool. Mildly apologetic if I messed something up, but I was kinda concerned you were fearmongering. Your response makes me feel more confident that you weren't going for that particularly. That chassis pun was a bit of a stretch, though.
How was it a good response? To me his response just looks like a bunch of puns.

WRT Carnegie, there was no danger of a lynch but there was a danger of a wagon building up and something dumb happening (could be a lynch, could be an unnecessary claim, could be people interpreting responses as scummy when they shouldn't be, etc). I wanted to head that off, which meant ending the badly justified lynch as soon as it produced some actual information.

WRT yd12k, it wasn't a GREAT response but it indicated to me that he just wanted to hint at the possibility for future reference. The post read like "I'm not sure, there could well be no bussing, I'd rather not talk about it at the moment" which is what I would expect from half-joking/completely joking/speculative town. By contrast, if he WAS fearmongering I'd expect him to point out a specific possibility or two or say something like "come on that's obvious bussing" or generally press the issue at a time when we don't have nearly enough context to build theories like that. Essentially, him seeming sure is what pinged me and his response didn't make him seem sure.

(04-21-2015 05:07 AM)amosmyn Wrote:  Hidden behind joking? Seriously? What sort of crap argument are you trying to set up here? I know my vote was frivolous and I think you're trying to pull this out of proportion more than the next guy because I can't understand how of all the people involved I could be the one trying to take advantage of it.

So obviously Unvote because Carnegie's reaction to the whole thing has given me zero reason to push it further and Vote: dC.

Out of proportion compared to what? It was still early D1 when I cast that vote and I don't believe a player as shrewd as yourself would place a joke vote on a wagon with two people already on it. Especially when you immediately dropped the frivolities afterward. I might have bought that it was frivolous if you'd responded to me frivolously but I'm not buying it in these circumstances.

(04-21-2015 05:44 AM)Carnegie Wrote:  Unvote since I guess there's some meta stuff going on right now that I don't really have any of the necessary knowledge about.

I'm not feeling too hot about DC but I'm not quite willing to jump on the wagon yet. In particular I don't like that he insulted me, proceeded to flip out himself, and then used my argument for my vote on amo to also vote amo

...oh man. It took me a bit to work out what you meant with the insulting.

When I asked about alignment uncertainty I meant MECHANICAL alignment uncertainty. Like some third party that isn't sure of alignment on D1. I think amnesiacs and other role duplicators do that? But no, I didn't mean "do you not understand your role PM" because that would be shitty as hell.

As to the flipping out...suffice to say I'm sick of seeing the way these low reasoning D1 wagons go and I have a bit of a *thing* about it. This might be unreasonable and maybe I should be deferring to the experience of the people who do it, but eh.

(04-21-2015 06:17 AM)yd12k Wrote:  dC appears to be overreacting to the tried and true method of exiting RVS, which is indeed not fun for the victim but both the only thing proven to work concistently and the only thing possible to do in any setup short of earlyclaims which are honestly less fun. (For the record, I'm referring to making a disproportionally big deal out of a slight mistake in RVS. It's okay because it's also the biggest mistake made the entire game up to that point and thus a point of reference to discuss (If thqat stuff were actually capable of getting people lynched it'd be another thing))

I disagree. We're out of RVS and the making a big deal of a slight mistake only had to produce a three-person wagon and lasted a short time, as opposed to taking up half the day and threatening to LEAD to an early claim by the target.

Now then. The important (i.e. not about me) thing for the rest of the class is that I don't buy Amos saying his vote was frivolous. I would have accepted "D1 wagon pressure" but I simply don't believe that he hopped third on the Carnegie wagon for shits and giggles. In particular I expected an explanation of the vote OR continued frivolity from town, and a serious "it was a joke vote >_>" from scum, the vote on me (which I'm reading as OMGUS) is just the cherry on top. My vote stands.

Also important enough to mention outside spoiler: Carnegie, I didn't mean to say "did you understand your role PM properly?". I am sorry it came across like that. See inside spoiler for more details.

@Chuck: It's 9:24AM over here, dude. My timezone is GMT +10, I've been asleep :V

@Goomba: Policy lynches mean any lynch on policy, not just lurker lynches. "Lynch All Liars", for instance, can technically produce policy lynches if a lie gives no particular indication of the liar being scum.

I find anti-goomba sentiment reasonable, I wasn't too happy with his FOS:Carnegie/Lynch:Anacreon (would have expected stacking up the Carnegie lynch, feels a little like wanting to put on pressure without coming off as responsible. Wishy-washy reactions to building wagons are never a good sign)

@Sotek: Any conclusions from the anac vote petering out? It looked to me like a wagon that just didn't get off the ground in favour of others and was abandoned.

Kiven is kind of weirding me out, mainly because the Sotek vote looks like something I'd do as scum (i.e. stick onto a one-off with vague reasoning D1)
Sotek is my top town pick, although this is biased by him ~getting it~
speedchuck is doing a little more towny than average, seeing the case on MG but not on Amos doesn't scream "fitting in" and he has good curiosity
Acionyx hasn't really done enough of his signature stuff yet for evaluation, but he is poking at amos and picked up on the Kiven thing which are both good signs
yd12k seems vaguely foul-tempered. I have read previous games with yd12k in them and others have commented that he's "easy to mislynch" so I'm now vaguely wary of...
yuiop, who's yd12k vote I don't agree with. It didn't look to me like yd12k was being defensive, more that he was pissed that his attempt at a joke fell flat. Unlike with Amos, yd12k's action didn't really have an obvious purpose to it (well, it DID, but it was the fearmongering thing I tested for that came up negative). Plus he responded to my questioning with actual levity and "got serious" in a way that suggested losing patience with people not joking around with him rather than being defensive.
Carnegie reacted pretty well, all things considered. Looking forward to further content.
reaverb provides standard "vote and question" gameplay with reasonable answers when addressed and a bit of poking people on the side. It's a good start, needs a bit more meat on it before I can call it a townread.
anacreon has not done very much, the number of nulls in his reads are vaguely concerning (early D1 it's kinda difficult to hold that against anyone though)
And finally, beruru is beruru as far as I can tell so far.

Long post is loooooong, but a lot happened overnight =o. Summary: amosmyn, Goomba, yuiop, Kiven, anacreon under investigation.

PREVIEW EDIT: Now 10AM, that took longer than I would have liked :v

WHOA CHECK OUT ALL THESE MAFIA GAMES GUYS
(06-06-2016 06:12 AM)Coldblooded Wrote:  if there was ever a scumteam to overthink things and make a huge dramatic production out of day one, DC and Granola would probably be it.
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04-21-2015, 11:08 AM
Post: #176
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 10:24 AM)Sotek Wrote:  So, the D1 aggro carousel is a common event, and even more common is for scum to push it.

I've found pretty good success just by spending most of D1 tunneling a person who votes in a way that looks like they're trying to get that started.

dC's vote was such a vote - "RVSy", but with the appearance of a justification, and on someone who already has votes.
That can make a wagon look "inevitable" and generally Make Bad Things Happen.

Then ... there's what he said. He was aware of the D1 aggro carousel, and was choosing to start it up *so that he could defuse it*, and get information from same.

This is great, very protown.

Being on the receiving end of this, I'd just like to point out that it wasn't that bad. I feel like I could've easily survived it in the end, especially since most people weren't feeling like I was being scummy. It's almost ironic, though, that he wound up drawing all the attention to himself.

It seems silly to me to draw attention to an apparent problem after the game had already started. Why not bring it up in general chat or, perhaps, attempt to discuss it without intentionally being the spark for it?

(04-21-2015 10:24 AM)Sotek Wrote:  Also, people are aggroing him? Also great. One of them's probably scum.

There's 4 or 5 people on him. That's almost a third of the participants.

So yes, you'd be correct in saying one of them is probably scum. Because there's a lot of them. All in all that feels like a very common sense statement worded in such a way to draw vague suspicion to a crowd, which really doesn't help. The reasoning seems legit, but your phrasing just makes the whole thing feel off to me.
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04-21-2015, 11:12 AM
Post: #177
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
More or less i think i teased Carnegie enough to take the first step out of rvs.
I have townvibes from the guy. Not strong ones, but more or less satisfactory til he comments on matters outside of himself.
That and its easier to make conversation when theres no humour involved in the subject.

For the record, dC's rant is a nulltell for me. He's just being a good person.
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04-21-2015, 11:13 AM
Post: #178
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Ninjad by Carnegie and dc. Will need to read their stuff later
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04-21-2015, 11:21 AM
Post: #179
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 11:07 AM)dichotomousCreator Wrote:  Also important enough to mention outside spoiler: Carnegie, I didn't mean to say "did you understand your role PM properly?". I am sorry it came across like that.

It's fine. My opinions have slightly altered since this morning, of course, but suffice to say I've let it go since then, even without your apology. Don't worry about it.
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04-21-2015, 11:21 AM
Post: #180
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
If there's any sort of strategy behind any of dC's actions, I don't see it. I'm still finding it difficult to dig any reads out, but I will be posting an analysis later.

Unvote in preparation for actual analysis. I may very well put my vote back on dC if I find anything of substance on him; this post is mainly to try to motivate me to get up and do stuff instead of bandwagoning unhelpfully.
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04-21-2015, 11:25 AM
Post: #181
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Ugh sorry, I've been sleeping/working for most of the day so far and honestly I haven't really been feeling this day at all so far.

I think I kind of want to lynch Kiven right now though? Just look back at #139 and #142, where he calls out DC as one of his strongest scumreads (the guy with the largest wagon momentum at the time), and then immediately votes for Sotek because "the DC vote really rubs him the wrong way." The check-in post and subsequent Reaverb reaction post also just ring really false to me in a way that I'm not sure I can describe as being anything more than a gut feel.

DC and Sotek are both reading Light Town to me, but DC's wagon has way too many nullreads on it to bother trying to dissect right now.

Lynch SupahKiven

Tumblr/Steam
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04-21-2015, 11:25 AM
Post: #182
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Carnegie: Well, my point is that "scum want to lynch dC".

Therefore he's town.
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04-21-2015, 11:34 AM
Post: #183
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 11:25 AM)Sotek Wrote:  scum want to lynch dc

Assuming scum won't distance...
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04-21-2015, 11:34 AM
Post: #184
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 11:34 AM)Carnegie Wrote:  Assuming scum won't distance...

Scum bus but generally don't hyperbus, yes.
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04-21-2015, 11:36 AM
Post: #185
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 11:34 AM)Sotek Wrote:  Scum bus but generally don't hyperbus, yes.

I wouldn't call jumping on a weak D1 wagon hyperbusing.
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04-21-2015, 11:39 AM
Post: #186
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
EBWODP: By weak I mean an easily dismantled argument, not weak in numbers. Two people maybe had legitimate reasoning behind their votes for dC.

Also, the bus may not have been intended to get as big as it wound up being.
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04-21-2015, 11:43 AM
Post: #187
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 11:36 AM)Carnegie Wrote:  I wouldn't call jumping on a weak D1 wagon hyperbusing.

I'm just saying. That kind of bus is not the kind of bus I expect to see.
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04-21-2015, 12:10 PM
Post: #188
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
There's something in the Anac/Amos/Goomba pile. I just don't know -what- yet.

Mmm. The goomba wagon isn't moving. Let's push this pile from a different side.

Vote: Amosmyn.

He does seem to be lynchshopping, among other things that have been pointed out.
(I say. As a lynchshopper. /o\)

ANYWAY.

Hmm. Dumb mechanical question: What is a typical number of scum for a setup like this? I'm thinking ... 4 scum plus probably a survivor or SK? Bit less than a third, kinda-sorta more than a quarter. (and puts us at "five correctish lynches or five mislynches" which would be vaguely fair?)

I mean ... yeah we don't know much, but that's the rule of thumb, right?
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04-21-2015, 12:13 PM
Post: #189
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 11:07 AM)dichotomousCreator Wrote:  - If you think amos's vote wasn't calculated you're not giving him enough credit
Unvote Leaning towards Sotek's view now. Amos's vote said 'LYNCH CARNEGIE AGAIN' and a few other interactions between them made me subconsciously assume that Amos had already voted Carnegie and that dC was more bandwagony, but that wasn't the case. Will review more when it is my time of day to be more awake.
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04-21-2015, 12:22 PM
Post: #190
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Four scum + 3P would be a good baseline, but in a no-vanilla game it's a lot more up in the air. Personally I think we should address this question D2 after seeing how many deaths occur (a major piece of information for trying to examine the scenario directly) and having at least two flips (which may provide info on the setup), and be willing to reassess D3 if the kill count is different.

It also MIGHT be better for everyone to largely do this privately and just reference their conclusions when it's important for something else they're saying. Especially if there are 3Ps involved, public speculation about those informs scum just as much as it informs us.

OTOH scum gets to pool their thoughts and conclusions, so we might be at a disadvantage under that model...either way, given how much more info we have scenario-wise D2 I think we should hold off until then at least.

WHOA CHECK OUT ALL THESE MAFIA GAMES GUYS
(06-06-2016 06:12 AM)Coldblooded Wrote:  if there was ever a scumteam to overthink things and make a huge dramatic production out of day one, DC and Granola would probably be it.
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04-21-2015, 01:18 PM
Post: #191
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 12:10 PM)Sotek Wrote:  Hmm. Dumb mechanical question: What is a typical number of scum for a setup like this? I'm thinking ... 4 scum plus probably a survivor or SK? Bit less than a third, kinda-sorta more than a quarter. (and puts us at "five correctish lynches or five mislynches" which would be vaguely fair?)

I mean ... yeah we don't know much, but that's the rule of thumb, right?

Rule of thumb is 1:3. Seems pretty bizarre that you're factoring in a SK this early in; they're a rare sight in a setup this big. Not going to press for answers on that though; you either are said SK, are on a scum team of four, have a protective/offensive role or actually baited that comment. I'm going to guess it's not number four.

(04-21-2015 11:07 AM)dichotomousCreator Wrote:  
(04-21-2015 05:07 AM)amosmyn Wrote:  Hidden behind joking? Seriously? What sort of crap argument are you trying to set up here? I know my vote was frivolous and I think you're trying to pull this out of proportion more than the next guy because I can't understand how of all the people involved I could be the one trying to take advantage of it.

So obviously Unvote because Carnegie's reaction to the whole thing has given me zero reason to push it further and Vote: dC.

Out of proportion compared to what? It was still early D1 when I cast that vote and I don't believe a player as shrewd as yourself would place a joke vote on a wagon with two people already on it. Especially when you immediately dropped the frivolities afterward. I might have bought that it was frivolous if you'd responded to me frivolously but I'm not buying it in these circumstances.

Okay, assume that I were to have left that vote on Carnegie. How would I benefit from pushing a lynch built on bullshit? See, I wouldn't, because you can't just do that, as town or fuck even as scum. "Oh lets just camp on this vote that happened during RVS and see if people dogpile it". If you're saying people aren't giving me enough credit for my 'wileys' then you need to explain to me how I could possibly justify a lynch that obviously would be looked back on like that and why I would ever consider doing it. Carnegie's responses thus far have given me no reason to consider him scummy but if this is the angle you're going to push then I seriously want to graveslam you.

Maybe I should stop dicking around D1 all the time. It's too protown.

Vote: dC
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04-21-2015, 01:23 PM
Post: #192
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
ika, Mirdini, anacreon and Beruru need to talk.

Especially ika. Who are you?
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04-21-2015, 01:33 PM
Post: #193
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
We have no reason to care about how many mislynches we have D1. We have no idea how roles are going to affect everything tonight.
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04-21-2015, 01:53 PM
Post: #194
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Hey Amos, where the heck is all of this fake outrage coming from? Because I 100% don't buy the idea that you wrote up that paragraph in #191 just because DC called your vote frivolous or whatever.

Please try that post again with better explanations for your DC vote and less OMGUS, thanks.

Tumblr/Steam
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04-21-2015, 01:57 PM
Post: #195
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
@Amos: Probably the fact that this happened D1 every other game? There was a big rant about that earlier on, you might wanna go look it up. My assumption was that you were participating in the D1 low-evidence lynch (or "aggro carousel" as Sotek puts it) with the aim of either getting us out of RVS as town, or as scum claiming credit for getting us out of RVS by being part of a process that was inevitable anyway (a.k.a. my behaviour in Adventure Time Mafia D1). You'll note that Coldblooded did this exact thing and I am not criticizing him for it.

My issue with you is that when I pressed a small point of inconsistency (i.e. a seemingly joke vote third on a wagon), you flipped into defensive mode and immediately voted me and criticized my pointing that out rather than offering any of the perfectly reasonable explanations a townie would have. Why? The reaction you gave doesn't mesh with a townie who was joking around to me.

In summary you stood to gain "I helped us out of RVS!" points, which is a possible scum motivation.

...oh, hang on. That motive is incompatible with you SAYING the vote was a joke because you wouldn't be explicitly NOT claiming credit for the vote. That's actually a minor point for, because assuming you WERE being not entirely frivolous you took an action designed to benefit town without attempting to get credit for it.

The point about defensiveness/seriousness stands though, that has nothing to do with why you made the vote and everything to do with how you responded to me querying it. Plus your counterargument basically boils down to "why would I do <thing I did> as ANY alignment unless it was a joke" which at best puts your Carnegie vote at a nulltell and completely fails to address you putting on your serious face as soon as someone looks at your "joke" funny.

So let's try: Apart from my interactions with you, what are you seeing from my play so far? And why did you take my poking at your joke vote so seriously?

WHOA CHECK OUT ALL THESE MAFIA GAMES GUYS
(06-06-2016 06:12 AM)Coldblooded Wrote:  if there was ever a scumteam to overthink things and make a huge dramatic production out of day one, DC and Granola would probably be it.
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04-21-2015, 02:12 PM
Post: #196
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 09:46 AM)Sotek Wrote:  BTW, Kiven: "sleb" in the sense that reaverb is using it means "i don't know yet" - it's like ... you could read someone as "town", "sleb", or "scum", and sleb is what everyone is at the very start of the game.

Aight, thanks.


(04-21-2015 09:29 AM)Acionyx Wrote:  Why did it rub you the wrong way? What about it made it seem scummy to you?

Mainly first day vibes, but I'm feeling somewhat better about them now that they've been explained and he's spoken more.

(04-21-2015 11:25 AM)Coldblooded Wrote:  I think I kind of want to lynch Kiven right now though? Just look back at #139 and #142, where he calls out DC as one of his strongest scumreads (the guy with the largest wagon momentum at the time), and then immediately votes for Sotek because "the DC vote really rubs him the wrong way."

dC's not really a scum read of mine though? The question was who out of the groups who I thought would most likely be scum. Like, it's day one and I don't really have too deep of a read on anyone, really, but at the time, I wasn't really leaning scum on any of the three I addressed. If anything, either amos or dC seem like good 3p candidates, because they don't really look co-aligned? I'm leaning more towards amos<dC<Carnegie on scum to town reads as of late, but they're still far from concrete.

Still, Vote: amos because he seems pretty iffy as of late and tbh that's all I've got right now.
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04-21-2015, 02:25 PM
Post: #197
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
(04-21-2015 01:53 PM)Coldblooded Wrote:  Hey Amos, where the heck is all of this fake outrage coming from? Because I 100% don't buy the idea that you wrote up that paragraph in #191 just because DC called your vote frivolous or whatever.

Please try that post again with better explanations for your DC vote and less OMGUS, thanks.

I made noise in the beginning of the game on Carnegie for gags and voted in #112 as followup to said gags. dC made a rant in #120 which I've mentioned that I see as a total nulltell. Post #122 is where dC comes in and I followup with a vote on him for #130. The issue then balloons to a stupid degree and here we are, dC still on my case for reasons in #122 and me still having an enormous problem with that.

In otherwords I think dC's being more stubborn about this than I would expect someone to be about the issue.

(04-21-2015 01:57 PM)dichotomousCreator Wrote:  @Amos: Probably the fact that this happened D1 every other game? There was a big rant about that earlier on, you might wanna go look it up. My assumption was that you were participating in the D1 low-evidence lynch (or "aggro carousel" as Sotek puts it) with the aim of either getting us out of RVS as town, or as scum claiming credit for getting us out of RVS by being part of a process that was inevitable anyway (a.k.a. my behaviour in Adventure Time Mafia D1). You'll note that Coldblooded did this exact thing and I am not criticizing him for it.

Again, I saw the rant, I said my bit in response to it. "Good on you for putting that out there but it doesn't change the game".

Quote:My issue with you is that when I pressed a small point of inconsistency (i.e. a seemingly joke vote third on a wagon), you flipped into defensive mode and immediately voted me and criticized my pointing that out rather than offering any of the perfectly reasonable explanations a townie would have. Why? The reaction you gave doesn't mesh with a townie who was joking around to me.

In summary you stood to gain "I helped us out of RVS!" points, which is a possible scum motivation.

...oh, hang on. That motive is incompatible with you SAYING the vote was a joke because you wouldn't be explicitly NOT claiming credit for the vote. That's actually a minor point for, because assuming you WERE being not entirely frivolous you took an action designed to benefit town without attempting to get credit for it.

Clearly I'm not the only one being defensive here! I think your point sucks and it still sucks and hence I certainly thought you were worth pressing. Apparently I'm doing my job right!

As far as the RVS stuff goes I am not entirely sure what sort of point you're trying to make here? I think getting out of RVS is motivation for any player D1, more town than scum? The vote on Carnegie was not intended to be serious, getting out of RVS happened after when you made your stance and I disagreed with it.

Quote:The point about defensiveness/seriousness stands though, that has nothing to do with why you made the vote and everything to do with how you responded to me querying it. Plus your counterargument basically boils down to "why would I do <thing I did> as ANY alignment unless it was a joke" which at best puts your Carnegie vote at a nulltell and completely fails to address you putting on your serious face as soon as someone looks at your "joke" funny.

So let's try: Apart from my interactions with you, what are you seeing from my play so far? And why did you take my poking at your joke vote so seriously?

Yes, you would be correct to put that as a nulltell. It's not supposed to be a towntell! There was no motivation to score townpoints from playing the allcaps blowhard gag in the beginning.

So yeah, as far as your play goes I'm seeing a lot of tunneling on me primarially over something that I know is inconsequential. I can't think of any reason that you wouldn't be scum for that right now.

Reviewing your other stuff I'm not seeing a whole lot I disagree with you on. I agree with you on an intellectual level but you're otherwise a nulltell assuming that the above is a huge misunderstanding. Really hoping it is because I don't want to argue about this point anymore than I have to.
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04-21-2015, 02:31 PM
Post: #198
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
In case you want my opinion:

Town: Carnegie (!), Myself
Lite Town: Acionyx, yuiop
Null: Speedchuck, yd12k, Coldblooded, Reaverb
Light Scum: Sotek, MG, Kiven
Scummy: dC,

Inactive: Mirdini, Ika, Beruru, Anacreon, (Reaverb)

Looking forward to reaverb's commentary because I like his train of thought meta-wise.
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04-21-2015, 02:44 PM
Post: #199
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Actually, Acionyx, could you give me your opinion on Sotek? Cheers.
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04-21-2015, 02:49 PM
Post: #200
RE: Traffic Jam Mafia [16/16] (DAY 1: High Noon, High Tempers)
Food for thought question for anyone but Amos or dC:
What motive would scum!Amos have for jumping onto dC at this particular point in time? (As opposed to earlier or later)
You guys are smart, you can answer this. :P

Amos, I am curious as to why you have Sotek in your scumreads, but you can answer that in response to Acio when he answers you. That'd be great. Thanks. (I don't have him marked as scummy right now)
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